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Doctor Who

Discussion in 'Audio/Video/Books' started by Kyon, 4 June 2012.

  1. DerpyWhooves

    DerpyWhooves Rainbow Worrier

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    Jodie Whittaker has said in the past that she likes being a TV actor that can walk down the street without being recognised. Not any more!

    I'm both excited and nervous (you're nervouscited!) about a female Doctor. It's a big change, though of course the show is all about change. Mr Derpy is not happy about it and is pretty peeved that everyone with his point of view is being labelled a sexist. I'm concerned myself that it's a gimmick. I'll admit to being less excited, or maybe just differently excited, for a new Doctor than I would usually be. The excitement is tempered by the nerves.

    It is a risk, especially at a time of reduced ratings. Then again I wouldn't worry too much when Doctor Who is one of the BBC's biggest exports, though I'd hate for this to be a reason for that to change. Why is it that Doctor Who's ratings are so criticised though when Love Island only gets 2 million and is talked about as if the whole country loves it?
     
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  2. nerdowl

    nerdowl Dr Who & MLP Fangirl

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    It's to do with channels and reach and demographics and it gets very complicated very quickly. Let me put it this way: The 16-34 year old category where Love Island gets most of its viewership? Channel 4 Press twitter tweeted the other week that since Love Island started the only two programs to get a good share in that demographic when up against it were: A football match (England v France) and The Crystal Maze! (Which was why Channel 4 were tweeting about it).


    Here's some interesting links though...

    Analysis of twitter positive v negative reaction: https://www.brandwatch.com/blog/react-doctor-who-13/
    Yougov poll on whether people like the idea of a female Doctor or not (it should be the 3rd poll on that page):- https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/results/#/survey/54be73d0-6ad7-11e7-8cde-a6b53c1dce63
     
    #1862 nerdowl, 18 July 2017
    Last edited: 18 July 2017
  3. Cloudane

    Cloudane Element of Mostly Excessive Verbosity

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    It is risky but then when wouldn't it be? They didn't take the risk last time (despite the same rumours of a female Doctor) and had they waited another then "but there have been 13 men!" would've become "but there have been 14 men!" assuming people count John Hurt.

    Seems to me that if it's been losing viewers then it needs a shake-up, which is always a risk by its nature, rather than more of the same :)

    Did wonder if this would become an issue. It'll be the same people who insist that all Brexit or Trump supporters are racist and sexist when things are not quite as black and white as all that!

    As is hopefully evident, any ire I had was directed at "people who don't like it because of actual stated sexist reasons" and perhaps some "people who don't like it because ruddy left wing namby pamby PC brigade where's my red pill and my Daily Mail" :p but not at "people who don't like it because of the many complex concerns they have relating to the show and character, fears it'll be made into a gimmick (which I think most of us have despite the showrunner stating that's the last thing he wants to do) etc"
     
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  4. Cendaquenta

    Cendaquenta she / they

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    What I'm wondering is, what would constitute gimmickry? To the particularly vehement kind of folk I'm seeing in YT comments and such, it seems like the Doc merely existing on-screen as a woman is already "making it a gimmick"/"SJW pandering"/"forced diversity"/whatever.
     
  5. Cloudane

    Cloudane Element of Mostly Excessive Verbosity

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    If she's badly written and exists as "the female Doctor" rather than "the Doctor" (who happens to be female this time) and has a ton of episodes revolving around her identity is where I think people are concerned in terms of being a "gimmick" as it'd undermine the feminist message that it's the character and the person's acting ability that matter and not what chromosomes they have. That it'd basically be possible to try a bit too hard.

    Mind, you look at Missy and the really strong emphasis on her femininity she has going on, it could all be setting the Doctor up to subtly address this point and be like "yeah I'm female this time too, it's actually not that big a deal to me, I don't see the need to change my name and dress like Mary Poppins" :p
     
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  6. Cendaquenta

    Cendaquenta she / they

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    Image broken.
     
  7. Aldersgate

    Aldersgate Honorary Pony

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    Well spotted. I deleted it when I realised I couldn't work out how to link the gif properly. I thought nobody would notice my technical ineptitude! :p
     
  8. Cloudane

    Cloudane Element of Mostly Excessive Verbosity

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    I don't like this, but have to admit it's thought provoking and I do worry that it'll be completely correct:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    We could, of course, just ignore the halfwit knuckle-draggers from the mud puddles and recognise that even if Chibnall does suck, that it's because Nu Who just has a habit of picking less than stellar showrunners, and not because they cast a woman. There's no requirement to give those people's comments any merit.
    Still, third time lucky?
     
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  9. Cendaquenta

    Cendaquenta she / they

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    Oh dear... the post does make a lot of sense. Who's it by? I like their writing.
    I so desperately hope that's not how things go... it feels like practically the fate of the world (or hey, at least the Whoniverse) is hanging on 13 being fantastic to the point of infallibility.

    Ed.: Just watched a little video tribute to 12 (link) - it's so weird seeing Capaldi in his first season with short hair. Where is the magnificent floof?!
     
    #1869 Cendaquenta, 20 July 2017
    Last edited: 20 July 2017
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  10. Aldersgate

    Aldersgate Honorary Pony

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    That's a well-written piece, and I agree with some of the rationale, but I'm still slightly baffled by the general Chibnall antipathy from parts of fandom, which seems in a large part to revolve around "Cyberwoman". Torchwood's first season had all sorts of production problems and was rushed in many places, which led to its wildly uneven quality and tonal differences. In that series, Chibnall also wrote the very dark "Countrycide" (pretty good) and the mad-as-a-bag-of-badgers finale "End of Days", which was far from bad. Season 2 of TW was much better, and he wrote the excellent "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" there and the final three episodes which were all outstanding. In Who, "42" was average, but then it came before perhaps the most consistently stellar run of episodes in the show's history (Human Nature, Blink, Utopia, Sound of Drums/LoTTL), which is going to diminish anything. For Eleven, "Hungry Earth/ Cold Blood" was pretty good, but apparently was cut to shreds, removing a lot of the world building he put in place. I'll freely admit that "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship" wasn't great, but "The Power of Three" was a good piece of "world in peril" Who, albeit with a fairly rushed and nonsensical conclusion.

    As for Broadchurch's success being entirely down to the actors. Well... yes and no. They were uniformly excellent, but even they couldn't sell the mess that was series 2 to critics or viewers. Series 1 and 3 however showed that Chibnall can write emotion in subtle and intelligent ways, and explore grief beyond the obvious. Series 3 was one of the most emotionally nuanced and painful explorations of the effects of sexual violence, and the prevalence of a casual culture of mysogyny and sexism I've seen on television. A prime time show which was brave enough to have as its central message that *any* of the major male characters were potential rapists due to the pervading cultural attitude towards women and sexuality was pretty brave; and what's more it was written in such a way that it didn't smash you over the head with the message. In terms of writing, it was a masterclass in showing rather than telling.

    But then I liked Ghostbusters - all of it, not just the actors. :p
     
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  11. Cloudane

    Cloudane Element of Mostly Excessive Verbosity

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    I'm not sure who wrote that, I just stumbled across it on a random post somewhere.

    But I'm not as pessimistic about Chibnall (I liked Torchwood! It just ran its course)... it's just that if it's another mediocre series like the first of Capaldi's then he's bound to be seen as another "show-ruiner" to blame for every bump and plot hole, and possibly that would extend to the whole "we tried a female Doctor" thing.
    Or.. just maybe.. people won't be that dumb ^^'

    Only time will tell.

    I do know the fandom that I've seen is a bunch of moaners that make even ponychan look positive and optimistic about the show they follow XD
     
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  12. Aldersgate

    Aldersgate Honorary Pony

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    Yeah, vocal Who fandom can get me down sometimes - although I suppose with a constantly changing show and 50 years of canon everybody's idea of what the show *should* be is going to differ so hugely that arguments are inevitable. I think as with all fandoms there are a few who shout the loudest about everything they don't like, and the majority of fans are great.
     
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  13. Starscream759

    Starscream759 Honorary Pony

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    God the rabid whovians can make even people on 4chan look like sophisticated people. Not to say everyone on 4chan is bad but when you encounter the rabid side of a fandom, oh brother does it get ugly.
     
  14. Cloudane

    Cloudane Element of Mostly Excessive Verbosity

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    I'm with the official line, honestly - "it's all about change"
    Having watched up to early 4th in the Classic series - yep it's very different! Do I care? No, that's what makes it interesting!
     
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  15. Starscream759

    Starscream759 Honorary Pony

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    Indeed, Cloudy, indeed. I mean I've been a fan of Doctor Who since the new series first started and already I've been through three different Doctors for the new series soon to be four it's not really going to scare me just because it's a woman. I will say this and I will say this again as people have asked about what my opinion is on Jodie Whittaker and it's simply: I'm giving her a chance I don't know much about her but I'm giving her a chance. I'm not going to base my opinion based on her being a woman in the role I'm basing my opinion on her performance as the Doctor which is what it should be and wait for what she does in the Christmas special as well as her first appearance as the Doctor. Hell I've dealt with all the classic series Doctors and I've seen them all change and I didn't bat an eyelid when I was watching their stories at the very least.
     
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  16. Cloudane

    Cloudane Element of Mostly Excessive Verbosity

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    I spy Polly!
    I wonder then, if the scene with her is towards the end when 1st returns to his timeline... whatever happens could end up explaining why the 1st Doctor went from right as rain to just suddenly being all "worn out" during the course of the original Cybermen arc, which consisted of him doing nothing / being missing / lurking around in bed most of the time as far as I recall :p
     
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  17. Cendaquenta

    Cendaquenta she / they

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    "I don't suppose either of you is a doctor?"
    "You trying to be funny?"

    Oh 12 - love ya, buddy. Definitely going to miss him a ton. Maybe even nearly as much as I missed 10. (Although a lot of that was to do with not liking 11, and I dearly hope 13 won't let me down in that regard.)
    And heya, Bill! :)

    (Can't offer much comment on the Classic Who bits - I never watched any of it. Please don't tar and feather me. :p)
     
  18. nerdowl

    nerdowl Dr Who & MLP Fangirl

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    I really wanted to comment on the trailer but right now I'm too upset at this fandom for making Peter Davison feel so unwelcome that he's had to say goodbye on Twitter. :(

    Clarification of what he actually said (rather than the out-of-context media soundbite):- ,

    His farewell message:-

    And a RadioTimes article about it: http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017...-after-toxicity-around-female-doctor-comments
     
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  19. Cloudane

    Cloudane Element of Mostly Excessive Verbosity

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    Yeah it's such a shame. As per the 2p I threw in on Faceache, if the digital media weren't so obsessed with clickbaiting and actually showed the true context of what he said, so much less of this (or in fact many incidences of soundbites being used to demonise people and send the public shaming brigade after them) would have happened.
     
  20. Loganberry

    Loganberry Element of Custard

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    Although I'm sad to see Peter Davison make that decision, I'm not particularly surprised. Twitter has become a rather unpleasant place for some types of discussion -- a big reason I've largely stopped posting serious stuff there and moved it to a locked account with a limited audience. It seems to be open season for sheer abuse in a way that didn't happen anything like so much when the Who fandom was based around blogs like LiveJournal a few years back.

    On a happier note, the trailer made me smile so much! I am really looking forward to the Christmas Special now! One thing that occurred: when the two TARDISes were side by side, I have to say I much preferred the look of One's -- it seemed more organic and well-proportioned somehow. Twelve's seemed almost "home-made" and too clean by comparison.
     

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