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Feminism

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous Discussion' started by Cloudane, 23 September 2014.

  1. sleumas2000

    sleumas2000 The Like Monster Approacheth!

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    You've made a good point there. They're assuming that all guys who look down want to see them in bed, whereas some people really are just trying to avoid even speaking to this person, and might never have the courage to even talk to this person, let alone harass them into sleeping with them. I know that, even if I wanted to rape someone (which I most emphatically do not) I would probably lose the courage and end up talking awkwardly before moving away. That's how pretty much anything social goes with me.
     
  2. vaska00762

    vaska00762 R6 Siege fan

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    I've popped my head into this thread and gone "nope" at each time. Now the thread has gone a lot more quiet, I think it's time to throw my had into the ring.

    I have no problem with woman's rights, in fact I think we should be doing a lot more to make sure that women get a number of rights in the workplace and out and about. At the same time there are a number of things that we also need to do for men's rights. Rape is a terrible thing and anyone who is discussing enough to do it deserves to face the full extent of the law. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the crime, often it leads to one persons word against the other and because of our system being innocent until proven guilty, it means lengthy trials with little to no results. Even when due process has occurred, victim support is poor. While some facilities do exist, is not wide spread and often excludes one group of victims, men. Many people forget that men can get raped too, and when people hear that a man was a victim of it, they just laugh their heads off. The whole issue of rape concerns all genders not just women, and it's a fight that feminism alone cannot succeed in.
    One final point I feel that needs to be put out there regarding this is that I feel that everyone needs to have common sense when going somewhere. This for for all genders, if you're walking out at night, maybe returning home from a pay or something, try to stick to areas that are well lit. If there's public transport at night, take it. Consider taking a taxi home. Consider learning self defence in case you might need to use it. What I'm saying is that, no matter what, there will always be someone who is so messed up in the head that they will try to do horrible things, and if you know how to keep yourself safe, that could help reduce the number of cases. Rape is not just going to disappear if you prosecute each and every perpetrator, you need to be proactive and know what you can do to stop it from happening to you.

    Then we move onto another thing, and it's been proposed and shot down at every stage, paternal leave when a family has a baby. Mother's get maternal leave with good reason (although there are issues with pay during that time that need to be fixed), but what about fathers? The Universal Declaration of Human Rights says that everyone is entitled to a family life, so why do only mothers get leave when they have a baby? There is a lot that needs to be reformed with the current system but that doesn't mean that we can look to introduce new things to help families. I know this won't mean much to Americans (the US and Somalia are the only two members of the UN who didn't sign the UDHR) but here for us Europeans, it could mean that we all have more rights.

    I could probably go on but then I would probably repeat a number of previously stated points in this thread. In summary, feminism has some good aims, especially the moderate feminism, but feminism alone can't change the world, you need everyone regardless of gender to push the changes through.
     
    #102 vaska00762, 21 October 2014
    Last edited: 21 October 2014
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  3. sleumas2000

    sleumas2000 The Like Monster Approacheth!

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    It is however, a lot less common, and thus it gets a lot less media coverage, although I do agree - people really downplay male rape. It IS a problem and it DOES happen

    Yer what? I never knew the US didn't sign the UDHR! But.... why?
    I understand Somalia, but the US!

    ^ Well Said, Sir, Well Said.
     
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  4. vaska00762

    vaska00762 R6 Siege fan

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    It's true, I learned that in my International Development class. Even though former first lady of the US Eleanor Roosevelt lead the UDHR through the UN and had it signed and ratified by almost every single country, Somalia and the United States refused to sign it. Then again, the vast majority of UDHR signatories do not uphold the human rights of its citizens, eg South Africa during the violence of apartheid in the 1980s.
     
  5. sleumas2000

    sleumas2000 The Like Monster Approacheth!

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    Classic Example of the US government refusing to sign something outside of their control.
     
  6. Loganberry

    Loganberry Element of Custard

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    Not sure where you got this: the US voted in favour of adopting the UDHR in 1948. (Somalia couldn't, as it wasn't an independent country at the time.) Since the UDHR is a declaration, rather than a treaty, ratification doesn't take place in the same way anyway. Possibly you're confusing it with the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which has indeed been ratified by every country other than the US, Somalia and South Sudan?
     
  7. vaska00762

    vaska00762 R6 Siege fan

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    I got that from my lecture on Human Rights in my International Development class, I'll have to take that up with my lecturer for International Development, I remember she told us that the US and Somalia were the only two countries which had not signed the UDHR. We did touch upon the Rights of the Child which are different as children don't have the same rights as adults (i.e. they can't vote, they don't have a freedom of movement, etc.) Perhaps the US has adopted the UDHR, but maybe it didn't sign the document, again, I'll ask next time I'm in a lecture for that.
     
  8. Tak

    Tak In love with a star gazing fool

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  9. sleumas2000

    sleumas2000 The Like Monster Approacheth!

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  10. Cloudane

    Cloudane Element of Mostly Excessive Verbosity

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    I'm bad with eye contact (shyness / suspected mild autism) and for years it never even occurred to me that I was staring at womens chests or that they'd interpret it that way. It's only really when I overheard someone at work talking about men apparently doing this and "maybe I should just whip them out so they can get it out of their system" that I thought about my natural gaze and figured I may well be one of the guilty parties. It's absolutely unintentional and I'm actually paying no attention to it. I now make a conscious effort to avoid doing that, but can't say I'm perfect with it - eye contact requires a real concentrated effort for me, with some discomfort. It's a good motivation to keep trying though.


    ==

    Maternity and paternity leave are a tricky one. I agree that maternity leave is needed one way or another and at least there should be a choice of paternity if we're to live in an equal world. The practical issue is one that we see in the workplace here a lot and no doubt many: there are a few members of staff who we only see for maybe a week once every few years as they're just literally chain-spawning children. They'll get off from maternity leave and a week or two later be off again for another. If we had the fathers doing this as well, it seems like we'd never have any staff. I just wonder if there's a more practical, maybe more government-funded way of doing this rather than holding someone's job (holding a department understaffed) on potentially full pay while they pop in "once in a while" over a number of years..
    Hope no one hates me for this it's just a practical concern.
     
  11. sleumas2000

    sleumas2000 The Like Monster Approacheth!

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    Something spookily similar happened to me about 2 months ago. Luckily, the girl in question was one who I was good friends with, and so she told me (in no uncertain terms) that if I ever ended up making her feel uncomfortable, she'd just stare at my trousers until I got the hint.
    That helped quite a lot
     
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  12. Cloudane

    Cloudane Element of Mostly Excessive Verbosity

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    I suppose that's one way :p

    Slightly OT aside - is that you ponifying everything when quoting posts or something on the site?
     
  13. sleumas2000

    sleumas2000 The Like Monster Approacheth!

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    It is quite Possible - I was under the impression that the 'ponify' extension didn't edit text fields you were typing about it - but thinking about it - it might be messing up the 'Quote' function - because the Javascript probably scrapes the text from the page, which has already been edited by ponify
    Sorry! - I might disable it on this site, so as to stop this happening.
     
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  14. Urioxis

    Urioxis The dude

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    I don't think it's particularly problematic. Haven't seen anyone complain about it as such. It's up to you as to whether you disable it.

    The thing to note here is that looking someone in the eyes is very important for communication, especially when it comes to your professional life. If you have trouble looking someone in the eyes, fake it! :D
    Looking someone in the nose or the forehead is close enough that it looks as though you're looking them in the eyes without actually having to do so. Just a little tip I picked up years ago when I used to have trouble with it :)

    The only sensible and fair thing I can think of is to allow new parents a certain amount of leave together, which they may divide between them however they see fit. So say 40 weeks are allowed, you could take alternating 20 week breaks, one person has 2 weeks and the other 38 or whatever. There's no reason that dad's can't stay home with a new baby while a mum goes back to work, but only if the parental leave laws allow it which they currently don't.
     
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  15. Cloudane

    Cloudane Element of Mostly Excessive Verbosity

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    Ah I see :)
    I don't mind! I was just curious.
    Though I guess I have seen someone comment about fans ponifying everything recently, but that's not to say they were referring to that.

    As many have told me. It still takes a conscious effort to fake it (I manage with things like job interviews) but yeah it is a useful tip if people genuinely can't tell the difference. (I've never been so sure).

    Dividing it sounds like a really good idea. Of course, it's difficult to translate to the real thing as the parents don't always work in the same place. But that would help equalise it and help a lot with the absence issue as well.
     
  16. Mewn

    Mewn Favoured Class: Cleric of Luna

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    Yep, that's perfect, and it's a really good point that, while sexism in our society more often hurts women, it can hurt men as well if they don't fit into the traditional male mold. As part of a fandom that is about as counter to that mold as you can get, I think everyone here can appreciate that.
     
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  17. XBPonyA

    XBPonyA Pegulsus is best boyfriend <3

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    I like the comic a lot and idt does address the issues that we have in our society when it comes to gender but unfortunately due to the so called Feminazi's or Tumblr feminists or whatever you want to call them the comic seems to look more toward gender equallity rather tehn Feminism as it talks about the issues between both women and men while the Tumblr Feminists only care about the women side of things.
     
  18. servirare

    servirare hmmmmm

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    What can I say? The internet has been full of echo chambers of loud, angry opinionated people since more or less its inception. I'd know, since I've spent some time being a loud, dumb, angry opinionated person on the internet. The thing is, however, a small number of very loud people aren't representative of the whole no matter the volume of stuff that they post at each other.

    Much like cats on tumblr are not like real life (most cats I see ignore me and go about their business, rather than doing crazy things on demand), neither are these people on tumblr representative of feminists.

    But on another note, concentrating on the fundamental premise that women are somehow worse (and ignoring any consequences for men) will still be a net benefit, because that assumption also hurts men. If you ignore men completely but fix that, we will still benefit as a consequence.
     
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  19. sleumas2000

    sleumas2000 The Like Monster Approacheth!

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    Hear Hear
     
  20. Recurrent Trotting

    Recurrent Trotting Do you feel the same?

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