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Star Trek: Discovery

Discussion in 'Audio/Video/Books' started by Cloudane, 24 July 2016.

  1. Wonderbolt

    Wonderbolt Honorary Pony

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    Yeah it is, that's what puts me off watching the whole of all the shows.
    I think the talking side of things works well n DS9 were there is a whole diplomatic and larger world feel to it (in terms of not just focusing on the Federation) as well as the character relationships and development over the long term, but I don't like it in the other series which could be a lot faster paced and more action.
     
  2. Cloudane

    Cloudane Element of Mostly Excessive Verbosity

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    Is anyone else seeing Burnham as a bit of a scapegoat here? Yes she did wrong, she did mutiny, she went and killed t'Guvn'r (sorry can't unhear him being called the boss in a Northern dialect) and so she was right to be court martialled. But the official - if averted - sentence of life imprisonment seems extreme and they've obviously very heavily demonised her in whatever the trekiverse equivalent of "the media" is, such that every single person knows her and gives her a cold hard stare. I wasn't expecting her to be the next Sunset Shimmer and near-instantly welcomed back with hugs and forgiveness, but it seems as though there's more going on here than meets the eye. A Federation that has made mistakes in "coming in peace" and where war with the Klingons was already inevitable and has seen the opportunity to pin all the blame, responsibility and hate on one individual to make themselves look more innocent...

    We definitely needed the prologue as we get to see things through her eyes and that despite some pretty extreme misjudgements (partly caused by emotional panic - her having partially repressed human emotions doesn't appear to have been good for her) she always had the best of intentions and really believed she was trying to save everyone.

    I like the message I got from it, that just slinging people in prison can be a waste if they are willing to make amends, particularly if they had pure intentions in the first place. On the other hand, releasing her into a world where 99% of people absolutely despise her is perhaps a worse fate...

    Not sure what to make of the eccentric roommate yet. A little bit of a "Selphie Character" (Final Fantasy people know what I mean) but sensing a dark streak there somewhere.

    10 characters
     
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  3. vaska00762

    vaska00762 R6 Siege fan

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    3rd episode felt a bit out of tone for me, especially seeing as we've never seen this kind of stuff from the perspective of the main protagonist.

    I'm first speculating that this ship/mission is done by Section 31, or something. The black starfleet badge is a give-away for something like that to be the case, especially seeing as Section 31 his in the business of developing things for military applications. Plus there's the nature of the captain's authority in getting someone with a life sentence to serve on his ship, not only that, but the fact that there's a "TOP SECRET" (didn't Starfleet just say classified, or just secure communication?) message to the captain about the sister ship. Not only that, but when the USS Glen (?) was scavenged by the away team, they destroyed it, but for what purpose? To stop other Federation ships from finding this stuff?

    Certainly, this is far too inconsistent for a normal vessel, so, I'm thinking that Section 31 is what's going on here, not forgetting that the design of the Discovery reminds me a bit of the way the USS Avenger from Into Darkness looks. With all of these, it looks like we have an insight into the more secret, and more black ops side of Starfleet.
     
  4. sten whik

    sten whik Space

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    Just read an article by the person that redesigned the Klingons, poor guy thinks he nailed it.
     
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  5. Wonderbolt

    Wonderbolt Honorary Pony

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    Poor niave soul
     
  6. Cloudane

    Cloudane Element of Mostly Excessive Verbosity

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    I rewatched some old DS9 clips on
    Section 31 and it absolutely confirmed it to me, this is definitely a S31 ship.
     
    #26 Cloudane, 7 October 2017
    Last edited: 7 October 2017
  7. sten whik

    sten whik Space

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    Discovery's serial number is NCC-1031.
     
  8. vaska00762

    vaska00762 R6 Siege fan

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    Oh boy, I think the theory is cementing!

    Yep, Section 31 stuff looks more in line here. The whole issue this episode was more considering the ethics of experimenting with a creature in order to weaponise it, totally the kind of thing Section 31 would absolutely do, and something also tells me that questionable ethics for the idea of achieving something for the greater good might be a consistant theme. I'm guessing that this "Ripper" creature might be the recurring theme, and I'm going to call it now, there'll probably be an episode where the creature either dies or nearly dies, threatening the future of the Spore Drive.

    I was surprised to see that even Commander Saru felt that the questionable ethics of Burnham was more in line with Lorca or whoever else. I find this a bit odd to say the least, but it is interesting to see the idea of a ship being run to be explicitly unethical for the purposes of doing Starfleet dirty work.

    I gotta say though that the spinning disks for Spore Drive look stupid, and what's more, the weird effect it does makes little sense to me. The spinning saucer section made me think of those novelty pizza cutters which have the saucer section as the cutting edge.
    [​IMG]
    Alas, this is more a stylistic approach and maybe it might look better in hindsight.

    As for the Klingons, I'm getting mixed messages, and I feel like a lot of the Klingon behaviour we saw, and was established in Enterprise (which was consistent with the films, TNG and DS9) has been either forgotten or might be being retcon'd for whatever reason. I'm interested to see more, but I'm not too happy about what they're going for. The first 2 episodes were at least consistent with the messages of Kahless, with the ideas of "Be Klingon", and "You are Klingons; you need no one but yourselves". Plus, seeing off every warrior on their way to sto-vo-kor was pretty on point. Yet, the behaviour now just makes less sense, and seems like a different writer was involved in this episode.

    Eh, let's see some more, I'm still holding my judgement until the end of the season to say if I'm happy overall or not, but I do think that some elements of the continuity may have been overlooked, or retcon'd. As much as Gene Roddenberry was also a revisionist, Gene's no longer around and there's now a legacy of continutity that's hard to shake off. Even Enterprise had better continuity (with some oversight), but at least they were going for the tried, tested and known look and overal feel. Discovery feels off, and I'm not sue yet if it's one that can sit in the tone of Section 31 (which does justify it), or it's just written in an era where this stuff is normal in other serialised TV shows.
     
  9. Cloudane

    Cloudane Element of Mostly Excessive Verbosity

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    I will persevere with this show for now, but I'm struggling to really enjoy it. Sometimes it's good (the time loop one), a lot of the time it feels like I'm going through a chore out of loyalty to Star Trek (especially when I have to sit through the Klingon bits)

    It's just so full of mystery and supposedly "all will be revealed and make sense" but we're already more than halfway through season 1 and with no sign of that happening? Episode 7 (the time loop) was good but my last thoughts as the credits rolled on episode 8 was "I just have no idea what is going on". The Klingon segments don't help either (and I hate the new Klingons, it has to be said)
    I'd say it's kind of pretentious. It's been a long time since there has been a good Star Trek series and the writers are acting as if the franchise is in much greater esteem than it actually is - it needs to build up trust and respect before pulling these long complicated "just stick with us it'll make sense eventually honest!" kind of stunts. DS9 (also kind of a long arc sort of show) was great because it was built on good foundations. Those foundations have been excavated for decades now, and Discovery doesn't have that privilege. At the moment it feels like it might make sense by about season 5!

    Orville is worth checking out. It's not officially available in the UK yet, but you know, "whatever way works for you". It's Star Trek with a sense of humour (which is how it just about gets away with calling itself a parody without getting sued) and I'm much more captivated by it. Hopefully Discovery will catch up... eventually....
     
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  10. Wonderbolt

    Wonderbolt Honorary Pony

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    I am really enjoying it, I much prefer the moral ambiguity and darker themes rather than the sometimes overly happy clappy holier than thou nature of the older ones. The fact that Discovery is a warship (at least in the captains eyes) and not a heavily armed "exploration" ship really apeals. I didn't like the repetitive time warping episode though.
     
  11. vaska00762

    vaska00762 R6 Siege fan

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    I think the videos which might change your minds on Discovery might be the episode reviews from Trekspertise. Trekspertise has covered a lot of sci-fi and Star Trek themes, but recently, the channel has very easily shown the elements of Discovery that's great. Together with another channel, ECHenry, I've come to the conclusion that rebooting an alien species and making them very different is something that's done before and really makes what is now a TV trope something that's different, at least in some way original.

    Now, that's just stuff that just explains the episodes and the design behind the Klingons. But with regards to the hate (for want of a better term) for Discovery, well, it really annoys me that the people who hate Star Trek the most, are the so-called fans of the series. While there are some less than great films and episodes which commit the crime of being boring (I'm looking right at you, TMP), that's more or less the only issue I ever have. Writing generally is flexible, and while continuity is rather important, I think I have to fall back on the idea that good story-telling is more important than continuity and what's considered canon. Indeed, the whole issue of hating on Discovery more or less brought me to re-watching a lot of the less liked Star Trek films like The Search for Spock, The Undiscovered Country, Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis. Indeed, my favourite Star Trek film is Nemesis, even though it appears that it's one of the hated ones.

    I've done the same for episodes, which like Threshold and Tsunkatse (episodes which are hated for their "lack of plausibility" or whatever) makes me think the fans at large are the ones who are hurting Star Trek more than ever. With my favourite series being Enterprise, I think that's also rather confirmed, since I found very little that was bad in Enterprise. Maybe the odd boring episode, or the odd episode which wasn't well executed, but overall, I felt like Enterprise did a lot for the franchise and the idea of Star Trek filling a near-future sci-fi series too. To that extent, the whole Discovery thing has gotten me to go and watch The Animated Series as well, and while I am still getting through it, several episodes fit so well into the continuity, and indeed it's eerie to think that many lines in some of the TAS episodes end up being echoed again and again throughout TNG, VOY, ENT and even the JJ Films.

    I suppose that I'm an odd one out, and I'm looking forward to seeing how Discovery comes to the end of this season, but after having a tepid start, I am staying with it, since above all else, why shouldn't I try to enjoy Star Trek? Why should I have to join in the hating of Discovery? So far, most of the hate I've seen are things about "SJWs ruining Star Trek".
     
  12. Cloudane

    Cloudane Element of Mostly Excessive Verbosity

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    No hate intended here. I really want to love it! It's just proving a bit of an uphill struggle :p Purely personally, and I'd never seek to invalidate anyone else's enjoyment of it. I'm also hanging in there and hoping for the best. Babylon 5, for example, took at least a full season to get going and be as good (to me) as what I'd heard it was. So it's not a lost cause.

    Though I have to admit, I tend to join in the ridicule of Threshold :p

    As for the "lul SJW Trek" crowd, those are just altright prats. I'm not seeing anything "SJW" about it at all, just people thinking it's bad because it has women and non-whites in it. Uh duh, it's Star Trek.
     
  13. Cloudane

    Cloudane Element of Mostly Excessive Verbosity

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    Leaps and bounds better this time. Feels like the effort is starting to pay off!
     
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