1. Sign-Up →Hey there! Welcome to UK of Equestria!
    Getting involved is easy and free! Hit the sign-up button and fill in a quick form to get active on the site.

US Presidential Election 2016

Discussion in 'In The News' started by Wisdom Pen, 8 December 2015.

  1. Wisdom Pen

    Wisdom Pen Residential Philosopher and Wizard of Lincoln

    Joined:
    31 May 2012
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    272
    Just thought I'd open a general forum on Donald Trump just to see what people think of him and maybe engage some debate on his campaign and how he seems to think that our country is awash with islamification.

    EDIT: The thread has now been changed to a general US Presidential Election thread due to:
    1. Trumps recent lacking in relevance.
    2: The presidential Elections taking on a more appropriate topic.



    thumb.png
     
    #1 Wisdom Pen, 8 December 2015
    Last edited: 21 February 2016
  2. vaska00762

    vaska00762 R6 Siege fan

    Joined:
    19 September 2013
    Messages:
    3,343
    Likes Received:
    912
    On Donald Trump in general:
    Mr. Trump is a complete idiot in my opinion, he talks big, but really he cannot (and really will not) deliver on anything he says when it comes to this. My main concern is that he's currently the front runner in the Republican race for the presidential nomination, and his only rival in terms of support is Ben Carson who shares Mr. Trump's views. The Republican nomination seemed to be going to either one of these two men, but if their views start to appear more extreme and more distasteful, then I think the Republican party might switch to Jeb Bush as a safe vote.

    On his recent comments:
    They are absolutely insane. The fact that he's saying these things seems to show how full of himself and free from the concequences of what he says he thinks he is. I think his views are certainly representative of a vast number of Americans, but by no means a majority of the American population as a whole. I think his comments on London and Birmingham are incredibly inaccurate, if there really ever was a no-go zone for police in the UK, it would have been in parts of Belfast, Newry and Derry/Londonderry between the 1960s up to the 1990s, and at that point, police weren't patrolling those areas, it was the army. So, more or less, Mr. Trump not only doesn't know what he's talking about but doesn't even know what a real "no-go" area is!
     
  3. fiddlepony

    fiddlepony Recognised Pony

    Joined:
    13 March 2015
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    101
    Im just wondering where Mr Trump is really as ignorant, racist, mysogynist and obnoxious as he is coming over as OR whether it is a very carefully crafted and planned campaign to incite attention and hatred - bad publicity is better than no publicity at all
     
    Parthidens likes this.
  4. Irregular Apocalypse

    Irregular Apocalypse Follo teh oranj hoers ...

    Joined:
    9 July 2015
    Messages:
    3,592
    Likes Received:
    4,776
    He is.
    He really, really is.

    When Dick "Spawn of Satan" Cheney denounces you as being too extreme, you've not only crossed the sanity event horizon but you're also accelerating rapidly - no campaign manager on this, or any other, planet could pull of something like that.
     
    fiddlepony likes this.
  5. fiddlepony

    fiddlepony Recognised Pony

    Joined:
    13 March 2015
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    101
    I must admit that i agree with you there - it is a scary thought that people like him exist at all - he would have been so at home in the nazi party or maybe the ss.
     
  6. vaska00762

    vaska00762 R6 Siege fan

    Joined:
    19 September 2013
    Messages:
    3,343
    Likes Received:
    912
    Just as a point of order, the Nazi regime were rather friendly with certain leaders in the Middle East, particularly some Palestinian ones at that time due to a shared opinion of antisemitism.
    Trump is not expressing an antisemitic opinion. While he could be described as fascist, again this is not accurate as that involves the political superiority of an armed force, militia or paramilitary.

    Trump is, however, expressing far right views which are populist and would fit in with a number of far right parties across other Western countries (Front National in France, the BNP, the NDP in Germany, the Swedish Democrats, the Freedom Party in the Netherlands and Jobbik in Hungary). This is the idea that the source of all violence originates purely from Islam and that the solution is to shut it down. As a political movement, this is particularly popular in France (having recently dominated the local elections there) and Hungary (which is particularly xenophobic) among others. Movements like Pegida in East Germany are gaining strength, and this is because Islamist Terrorism is unfortuntely a problem for law enforcement and security services. Too many people equate Islamism to Islam, and because of this, they're scapegoating because they're scared.

    To quote the Men in Black movies, a person is smart, people are dumb. Collective fear will, unfortunatly, override the common sence of people and make them back those who promise safety and give them power, that's the point behind populism.
     
  7. Wonderbolt

    Wonderbolt Honorary Pony

    Joined:
    27 May 2015
    Messages:
    3,437
    Likes Received:
    3,418
    I don't know why the Republicans are even giving him the time of day. They could field a more moderate nominee, and still win of the back of Anti Obama feeling.

    True, some Muslims (from Eastern Europe) were in the SS (A lot of SS units weren't comprised of Germans The Wiking Panzer Division was composed of men from Nordic countries, Finland and the Low countries and the Charemagne Division was composed of Frenchmen)
     
    ScopeEva likes this.
  8. Mane25

    Mane25 Honorary Pony

    Joined:
    9 November 2013
    Messages:
    2,961
    Likes Received:
    2,589
    I don't really know the system for selecting a presidential candidate; is it only party members who decide or broader than that? If it's just Republican party members we're talking about here then their opinions may not represent a broader trend, and if he's unpopular with other voters and causing divisions within the party it may be difficult for him to be elected as president. Hopefully.
     
  9. Loganberry

    Loganberry Element of Custard

    Joined:
    16 May 2012
    Messages:
    13,030
    Likes Received:
    9,138
    I'm a little hazy myself, but I believe each state sets its own rules, so they vary a bit between each point in the race. However, your general point stands: it's more than possible that Trump could be hugely popular with his party base but not win over the voters he'd need to beat (presumably) Hillary Clinton in the actual election. At least, I hope he couldn't beat Clinton.

    Mind you, a wrestler (Jesse Ventura) got elected as Governor of Minnesota. A film star (Arnold Schwarzenegger) got elected as Governor of California, and would probably have run for President had he been eligible. And another film star (Ronald Reagan) did run for President, and he won. So it's dangerous to assume someone like Trump can't win.

    Incidentally, the petition to ban Trump from entering the UK has now passed 300,000 signatures. :p
     
  10. Princess Demandy-pants

    Princess Demandy-pants MagiKing Crimson

    Joined:
    28 May 2014
    Messages:
    1,463
    Likes Received:
    2,416
    Trump is a loudmouthed idiot, much like the majority of any Youtube comments section. The difference is, he's loaded and already powerful. Anyone he trusts wouldn't have a hope of getting through to him, as he has the mentality of "I didn't get here being nice to people." Dirty tactics like this are definitely the sad truth about upper management in a business, but a country is a lot bigger than a business, and strategies rarely work at larger scales.

    Take communism for example. Karl Marx wrote his manifesto with Britain in mind. A small country where it is relatively easy to control imports and exports. This concept was applied to Russia, a big country with many borders. Strangely enough, it didn't work out very well for them. And communism morphed into fascism and all other countries that got it ended up getting a broken system and breaking it more :/

    I'm hoping this will be comparable to the Nigel Farage panic of the last UK election. He was worrying people all over Britain with his popularity, but he didn't even get elected in the end, so things ended up OK (and by "OK" I mean a Tory run disaster). My main concern with that though, is that the US is a very different country, and their election campaigns are very different to ours. Ours are fairly low-key and short run by comparison. But with America, their elections are non-stop, and big businesses sponsor all the politicians who are willing to block policies that will damage those businesses, even when those policies will save millions of lives and even though those businesses can take the financial hits in their stride. This business-oriented environment is perfect for the likes of Trump who knows how to screw people over to get to the top.

    And these long, drawn out campaigns are perfect for utilising fear tactics. An open forum and several months to cast your spiteful net over the whole population? That's dangerous.

    I've probably not made any coherent points here, but hey, I tried.

    Dick by name...
     
  11. vaska00762

    vaska00762 R6 Siege fan

    Joined:
    19 September 2013
    Messages:
    3,343
    Likes Received:
    912
    Actually, I've studied this at uni. There were several international units of the SS from all over the world. North Africa, Ireland, Britian, India, France, Russia, Ukraine, Nordic countries, I could go on and on. But let me just say that Muslims were members of the SS and were complicit in the Holocaust i.e. rounding up Jews in Europe and also running the Concentration Camps (which were always the responsibility of the SS and never the Wehrmacht).

    Also, to those asking about how the selection of the presidential candidates works, I have some knowledge about it. In Janurary, there will be "primary" elections. Depending on the state, those who are registered Republican or Democrat voters get to vote for the respective presidential candidate of their choice. Some states allow registered Independent voters to vote in both primary elections while those who are not registered as a voter for a particular party get the oppertunity to vote in both as well, but the rules for each state do vary.
    The decision to nominate the presidential candidate for the October general election is made at the parties' convention (like a conference). It is at these that the parties decide which candidate to field at the general election. Some states have smaller populations so even if a candidate wins in several states, the parties will often consider the total votes as states such as California, New York, Virginia, Maryland, etc. have large populations. While rare, parties may not choose the candidate with the most votes from the primary elections, and instead choose the candidate which the party believes is most likely to win the general election.
     
  12. CrikeyoRilley

    CrikeyoRilley Supplier of Apples and Apple Accessories.

    Joined:
    24 June 2015
    Messages:
    1,869
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Not sure if I'll laugh or cry when its revealed this Trump fellow's current persona is just a ridiculous reality TV stunt like that similar asshat Dapper Laughs.

    Ohh reality TV, you so CrayCray. Have you signed the UK ban petition? :)
     
  13. Princess Demandy-pants

    Princess Demandy-pants MagiKing Crimson

    Joined:
    28 May 2014
    Messages:
    1,463
    Likes Received:
    2,416
    I certainly have, even though it's over 300,000 signatures so doesn't even need any more to be considered for debate.
     
  14. sean retro

    sean retro Honorary Pony

    Joined:
    27 November 2012
    Messages:
    2,042
    Likes Received:
    1,660
    I signed up to keep this idiot out, we got enough idiots here and we don't need another.
     
  15. vaska00762

    vaska00762 R6 Siege fan

    Joined:
    19 September 2013
    Messages:
    3,343
    Likes Received:
    912
    To be honest, I would not sign the petition. While I do not like Trump and I find his comments abhorrent, I don't think Trump would actually be banned if it were put to a vote in the House of Commons. The whole idea of banning him from entering the UK just doesn't work out in my mind.
    First of all, we live in a democracy, which will include people with opinions which will be abhorrent or just insane, but they will have that opinion and that view, and I think that just banning someone from being somewhere is not the democratic way of dealing with such a person. The real way is to argue against that person's view and provide both evidence and rhetoric in order to show people that that view is not the right one to have.

    Plus, even if Trump was banned from the UK, it might boost Trump's campaign and his idea of "making America great again" allowing him to say that like America, he is under attack from foreign governments/actors. And again, if he is elected president (god forbid), then what on earth are we supposed to do when the inevitable visit from the POTUS occurs? Do we ban a head of state visiting the UK, especially the head of state of the United States?

    We haven't banned the leader of the Front National, nor leaders from any of the far right parties from other European countries. As much as I highly dislike them, I'd rather use reason and evidence to argue against such a person than just block them entirely. I probably rate democracy a bit too highly, but without it, I don't think we would be able to express our opinions no matter what it is.

    I should digress, but more or less, trying to ban him entering the UK is silly and a bit childish IMO, and it's a bit tit for tat for what Trump has said. Just proving that he's wrong is all we need to do IMO.
     
    ScopeEva and Cloudane like this.
  16. Princess Demandy-pants

    Princess Demandy-pants MagiKing Crimson

    Joined:
    28 May 2014
    Messages:
    1,463
    Likes Received:
    2,416
    I think he counts as a hate preacher though
     
  17. Wonderbolt

    Wonderbolt Honorary Pony

    Joined:
    27 May 2015
    Messages:
    3,437
    Likes Received:
    3,418
    I agree with @vaska00762 banning him from the UK is a bit silly. If he was to become US president it would be something of a diplomatic crisis. Plus it also makes it look as of what he said about the the UK was true and we have something to hide.
     
    vaska00762 likes this.
  18. CrikeyoRilley

    CrikeyoRilley Supplier of Apples and Apple Accessories.

    Joined:
    24 June 2015
    Messages:
    1,869
    Likes Received:
    1,557
  19. Loganberry

    Loganberry Element of Custard

    Joined:
    16 May 2012
    Messages:
    13,030
    Likes Received:
    9,138
    To put it mildly, and in oh so many ways. For one, the world is full of Muslim leaders. Would Trump ban, say, Joko Widowo (President of Indonesia) from making a state visit? And what if, say, Sadiq Khan became British PM at some point? Would he be banned from the US too?
     
  20. Wonderbolt

    Wonderbolt Honorary Pony

    Joined:
    27 May 2015
    Messages:
    3,437
    Likes Received:
    3,418
    Well it would depend what he meant by his proposed ban, does he have a plan for a blanket ban on Muslims all together or just from Muslims becoming US citizens or living in the US?

    Also if you banned Trump from coming to the UK for preaching hate then surely be default that would mean (ironically) the leader of some Islamic states would have to be banned for treatment of Homosexuals and woman etc.
     

Share This Page